Curse

Stuart444 · Apr 16, 2008, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I am trying to make Olias into a minion master since he is the only Necro I have and in my experience, minions have helped out alot when my team is being overrun by monsters >_> so how does this build look (remember I don't have all necro skills yet so this will probably change when I get an elite skill for creating minion)

Blood - 9
Death - 16
Soul Reaping - 9
Curses - 3 (this one was only used to fill up the leftover points really)

[skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Barbed Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

AlanQQ · Apr 16, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

HEY well you have too many minion skills thats not really necessary, and the barb signet isnt necessary either lol. if you are going to have death nova on a hero, then i suggest you only take the Animate bone minions skill and drop the rest. There is a sabway (trio) necro hero build out there with a great example of death nova + bone minions build. Im not sure where but its definitely in guru

check the hero section. But yeah, you definitely need blood of masters to keep ur minions alive. IF you dont plan to use the trio necro MM build, you can add Flesh golem as elite and jagged horror + fiend. BAsically you dont want too many summoning skills because its really not necessary due to the limited number of minions one mm can make.

DarkSpirit · Apr 16, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

I used a variant of Zingeri's MM before sabway:

[build box name="Fiend Nova Interrupt MM" prof=N/Me ins=3 death=12+3+1 sou=12+1][Death Nova][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Bone Minions][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Jagged Bones][/build]

Works fine in NM.

Soul Saver · Apr 16, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46

This is a pretty good start. As an mm you need [Blood of the Master] to heal your minions. I would get rid of [Barbed signet] and move all of the blood points to soul reaping or at least get it to 10. Maybe also change him to monk secondary and switch out [Resurrection Signet] for [Resurrection Chant] or another rez monk skill of your choosing. Also bring [Heal Area] or its Faction counter part [Karei's Healing Circle]. obviously you will have to move points to healing so i would suggest about 8. This should leave you with 10 soul reaping and 16 death magic. Heal area at healing 7 heals for 100 not only for a quick personal heal after using [Blood of the Master] and to heal your degening minions. You will have to remove some minion skills so its all personal preference with that. Keep [signet of lost souls] because heroes can use it the most accurately for a minor heal and energy gain. A computer can determine when 50% is better than a person. Also work towards capping [Animate Flesh Golem] cause its the best for an mm. hope this helps.

Kiluna · Apr 16, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanQQ

There is a sabway (trio) necro hero build out there with a great example of death nova + bone minions build. Im not sure where but its definitely in guru

It's here

@Stuart;
By skills you list i guess you have at least Factions and Nightfall, and since you got Olias you have Proph too. Though you didn't mention which campaings you have completed or how far you are in them. But since you say the ammount of skills available (spelling?) to you is limited atm, i could suggest 2 things.

1. Buy 1-2 skill unlockpacks, 9€ or 18€ extra on great game that doesn't have monthly fee is more fair imo. (take it as a monthly fee for this game untill you have bought all :P)

2. Something like this shouldn't be too hard to get (through Hero Skill / Skill Trainers or Balthazar faction):
[skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill] or[skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill]

That should do it's job as meatshield, if you want run bomber instead, take bone minions with death nova and use rest of the slots on utility (aegis, condition removal or w/e)

If you can get Jagged Bones unlocked to your hero, i would suggest Sabs bomber or http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master

Lord Xivor · Apr 16, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/any_Minion_Bomber
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/any_Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/...of_the_Lich_MM
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Minion_Master
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/Rt_Animate_Splinter

Stuart444 · Apr 16, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Well [skill]blood of the master[/skill] is a definate skill I should use judging by the posts

EDIT: Btw I have all three campaigns and the expansion, however I am using faction points because I have not ascended yet in prophecies (working on that and thought a minion master would come in handy for that, and would come in handy in later areas as well)

I do NOT plan on unlocking any elite skills for my heroes without capturing them from the monsters because....well I want the satisfaction of knowing that I did that myself >_> if ANY hero (I dont know if this is true) has an elite skill already then fair enough but if they don't, then they won't until I capture it myself (but I need to be able to change my secondary profession for that >_> )

DarkSpirit · Apr 16, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

MMs are usually the most important hero to bring along in most PvE cases.

I saved some interesting MM builds that I came across (with just their base attributes):

[build prof=N/D earthp=8 sou=10 death=12 blo=2][Aura of the Lich][Dark Bond][Infuse Condition][Mystic Regeneration][Blood of the Master][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Bone Horror][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

[build prof=N/? death=12 sou=12][Putrid Bile][Animate Vampiric Horror][Animate Bone Horror][Aura of the Lich][Blood of the Master][Taste of Death][Signet of Lost Souls][Resurrection Signet][/build]

[build prof=N/? blo=3 death=12 sou=12][Order of Undeath][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Vampiric Horror][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Dark Bond][Resurrection Signet][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo blo=2 death=12 sou=10 hea=8][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Vampiric Horror][Infuse Condition][Blood of the Master][Heal Area][Dark Bond][Resurrection Chant][/build]

Covah · Apr 16, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Saver

Also bring [Heal Area] or its Faction counter part [Karei's Healing Circle]. obviously you will have to move points to healing so i would suggest about 8.

We don't want him healing the enemy, your monks can do the healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Saver

Also work towards capping [Animate Flesh Golem] cause its the best for an mm. hope this helps.

Jagged bones or Aura of the Lich is way better then an elite devoted to making one more minion.

Chthon · Apr 16, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

The hero AI simply cannot handle a Minion Master build right. Instead you should give it a Minion Bomber build. That's something it can not only do right, but much better than a human.

There's a large list of things that a Minion Master needs to do the hero AI cannot do right. Rather than list them all, I'm going to mention the biggest one -- they do not "understand" minion degeneration, so they won't cast [blood of the master] at a steady pace to counteract it; instead they let the minions get too low on life, often losing minions because of it, and then cast BotM too aggressively and put themselves in danger -- and direct you to search the necromancer forum for other shortcomings of the hero AI.

Here's a hero minion bomber build that I'd recommend for almost any zone where corpses are in adequate supply:

[build prof=N/Rt death=16 soulreaping=13 resto=3][jagged bones][death nova][foul feast][infuse condition][animate bone minions][well of suffering][taste of death][death pact signet][/build]

Taste of death can be replaced by [putrid flesh] for easier content where the self-heal isn't as important.
Well of Suffering can be replaced by [dark fury] (& move some points to blood) if you're using a physical heavy team (imbagons and godmode warriors really appreciate it) or any particular skill that's more specially suited to your party or the area you're in.
Death Pact Signet can be replaced by whatever rez you prefer if you're not confident in your team's ability to use it without consequences.

[Edit: Realized that the mouseover for Foul Feast is old and completely wrong. The new description is:

Quote:

5e, 1/4cast, 2 recharge
Soul Reaping
All conditions are transferred from target other ally to yourself. For each condition acquired in this way, you gain 0...36 Health and 0...2 Energy.

Combined with Infuse Condition it lets the hero completely clear an ally of conditions every 3 sec and gain energy and health for doing it. The conditions passing to the minion aren't a problem because you're going to just blow the little guy up anyway.]

Spaced Invader · Apr 16, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

I would strongly suggest not to use Death Pact Signet on an MM bar.
If his protégé dies, not only does he die, but also 10 minions with Death Nova might turn on you.

Way too risky to justify its use.

Coloneh · Apr 16, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaced Invader

I would strongly suggest not to use Death Pact Signet on an MM bar.
If his protégé dies, not only does he die, but also 10 minions with Death Nova might turn on you.

Way too risky to justify its use.

not at all. 120 seconds is NOTHING. if two members of your team die in this much time you are going to fail anyways.

MasterSasori · Apr 16, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I find Sabway's Jagged Bomber to be one of the most effective builds available for MMs.

DarkSpirit · Apr 16, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I find Sabway's Jagged Bomber to be one of the most effective builds available for MMs.

I like Jagged Bones too and I have been using it long before sabway.

Unfortunately many people at that time, before GWEN, kept insisting that I should use Flesh Golem for an optimal MM build.

Spaced Invader · Apr 16, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

not at all. 120 seconds is NOTHING. if two members of your team die in this much time you are going to fail anyways.

Simply not true.

(And if you're that much of an elitist, you wouldn't have to bring a rez on your MM in the first place, eh?)

DarkSpirit · Apr 16, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

not at all. 120 seconds is NOTHING. if two members of your team die in this much time you are going to fail anyways.

Using DPS, all it takes is for the ONE guy that the MM resurrected to die again within the 120s and your MM would go along for the death ride. This leaves his minions to go hostile against your party.

Actually, I dont like having res on a MM even though I have seen builds that include one for the MM. When the MM dies, the penalty is just not worth it so I wouldn't waste the MM's time to slow cast a res on someone. DPS, on the MM, just makes it even worse.

Conversely, having some healing/protect skills on the MM makes good sense now that I know more about MMs. If I bring a bonder, I always try to keep the MM well protected.

Chthon · Apr 16, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaced Invader

I would strongly suggest not to use Death Pact Signet on an MM bar.
If his protégé dies, not only does he die, but also 10 minions with Death Nova might turn on you.

Way too risky to justify its use.

1. Let me repeat myself: Death Pact Signet can be replaced by whatever rez you prefer if you're not confident in your team's ability to use it without consequences.

2. And handful of bone minions with death nova should not be a huge threat to your team. Unless you're dumb enough to stop attacking the monsters and start killing the minions so that they all blow up on you at the same time, you can just let them swing away doing near-zero melee damage and they'll blow up piecemeal as they degen out. No problem.

A pack of level 18/19 fiends and horrors from a minion master is another story. 10 of those can hurt a bit. But leftover bone minions from a minion bomber shouldn't be a concern.

3. Coloneh is right on this one. If your team has someone who's dying twice in 2 minutes, then you've got much bigger problems than a few loose bone minions. Since I started putting DPS on my heroes, the only time it's ever come back to bite me has been when I've joined PUGs without remembering to change it. (And even most PUGs are good enough that DPS isn't ever going to trigger on you.)

mrmango · Apr 16, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaced Invader

Simply not true.

(And if you're that much of an elitist, you wouldn't have to bring a rez on your MM in the first place, eh?)

How is that comment elitist? Don't make up stuff to make yourself feel better. Coloneh speaks the truth.

Spaced Invader · Apr 16, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

I could not disagree more. For the reasons DarkSpirit listed.

DPS is not worth the risk of losing your MM (incl. minions). Bring it on any other char/hero if you like. There's no reason not to take any of the other zillion rezzes on your MM - or none at all, actually.

If you're oh-so confident in your team's abilities the latter is just what you should do anyway.

Super Igor · Apr 17, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Heroes use shouts in a godly way, minions too, now why not combine them?

This what I use A LOT:

Death: 16
Command: 10
Soul Reaping: 9

1. Jagged Bones
2. Death Nova
3. Animate Bone Minions
4. Blood of the Master
5. Foul Feast
6. Signet of Lost Souls
7. Stand Your Ground!
8. Never Surrender

I wub this build, Minions + Shouts. <3

~Super Igor

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